Episode 11 - Starting an online business before Instagram... How?!
Joining us today on the fitDEGREE Podcast is Denise Posnack Gaffney, a woman with quite a story to tell. Denise thrives on spontaneous challenges such as living in another country or starting an online business before Instagram was even a thing.
Denise is here today to talk about her story of creating that online business, what she learned, how she adjusted and what’s on the horizon for her.
Main - Dan: fitDEGREE is more than just two guys with microphones. It is the studio management software you've been looking for. For more info reach out to me on our website at www.fitdegree.com, on Instagram at the handle fitdegree, or my email dan.berger that's B-E-R-G-E-R at fitdegree.com to get the conversation started. All right now on to the show.
Main - Dan: Hello, good afternoon and let's get this show on the road. My name is Dan and as per usual I will be your host along with my co-host Nick. Joining us today is Denise Posnack Gaffney, a woman with quite the story to tell. Denise thrives on spontaneous challenges such as living in another country or starting an online business before Instagram was even a thing. Denise is here today to talk about her story of creating that online vision, what she learned, how she adjusted, and what's on the horizon for her. Thanks for joining us Denise, we're so happy to have you on the show. How are you today?
Guest - Denise: I'm so good, Dan. Thank you for having me. I'm happy to be here.
Main - Dan: Of course, so as I know but our listeners don't know, you have quite a story and you don't sit still very well. So, I don't particularly know where to start and I'm not entirely sure you do either, but take us back to wherever you think the best place to start this story is to catch us up to speed.
Guest - Denise: I love it. Thank you Dan. So, yeah, I'll say, yes. Your intro was absolutely right. I love spontaneity. I love taking risks. I love being creative and I love trying new things. So, I've lived in a lot of different places. I did an MFA in dance. I was a dancer in college actually, was a liberal studies major of course because liberal studies focuses on everything, right?
Main - Dan: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Guest - Denise: Then I focused on dance. I actually moved to Europe for two years. When I came back to the states I got my MFA and I also got my Pilates Certification and then I taught in universities in the Midwest and in the South. After teaching in these universities I decided actually I need to be in the mecca of dance, which was New York City.
Main - Dan: Sure.
Guest - Denise: [crosstalk 00:02:21] so like, 35 years old which is considered old in the dance world or in the traditional dance world. I was inspired by a friend who did the same thing and she was in her late 50's. She's like, "I moved to New York City at 35." I'm like, "Okay, I'm doing it." So, moved to New York City and delved into the dance world and realized very quickly that it really wasn't my passion. It had been but then there was this realization, I was like, "No, you know what? I don't love it enough because to be able to be a dancer in New York City it means-"
Main - Dan: That's cut throat.
Guest - Denise: You don't have any financial ... well, you just don't have financial stability. You don't. And I wanted to earn enough money so I could stay here in the City because I loved it. And you got to earn money to stay in the City as you guys know.
Main - Dan: Oh, yeah.
Guest - Denise: I mean everybody knows that about this City. So, I decided to focus more on my business which at the time or ... is teaching Pilates and I'd been teaching one on one Pilates for a while and so I was kind of doing that even when I was a professor at the University of Georgia, I had my own Pilates studio and I also taught classes. I taught dance classes in the studio and I produced events and I always had like actually I identify as having three jobs always, since I was old enough to work. So, I have always had three different jobs which is fun and I love it. But then I-
Main - Dan: I hear, "But yeah, I'm convincing myself it's fun," in your voice.
Guest - Denise: But, yeah it was like I still feel like I could. Anyways, so then I decided, you know what, I'm going to be an entrepreneur and I'm going to ... in the city of creativity, New York City is the place where all around you everybody has an idea that they're testing out and they're ... we're like in the center of that, right? In the center of creativity. And so I decided I'm diving in, I want to do something new, and I had all of the ideas floating around in my head as I'm on the subway, you know I'm meeting all these cool people, doing really interesting unique things, and then I decided I need to land on one of them. And so I went home, I remember being in my apartment in Brooklyn, and I wrote the list down. And there were like six different things.
Guest - Denise: One of the things on there was Skype Pilates. And I was like, "Hmm. Okay." My sense was that, that's what I wanted to try. And I circled it and then I took action. And so right after I circled it I emailed former clients in Athens, Georgia, and I said, "Hey, would you guys be open to trying this." I had one client who said, "Yes." I did the session with them and it was amazing. It was like oh my god this works. So, from there I built my business. I launched my website.
Guest - Denise: Oh, this was the other thing, and I will say in terms of a catalyst to get you going one of the things I did was I reached out to someone at Glamour Magazine. Okay, so there's a site, you guys probably know, Help a Reporter Out. Have you heard of that? Do you know what that is?
Main - Dan: No, I haven't.
Guest - Denise: So, it's H-A-R-O and basically journalists post what they need for their articles on this site and you can the list.
Main - Dan: Really?
Guest - Denise: Oh, yeah. Everyday so you can go in and you can say, "Need a trainer to comment on blah, blah, blah."
Main - Dan: Oh, wow.
Guest - Denise: "Need a nutritionist who knows about gut health."
Main - Dan: Sounds like the ultimate win-win.
Guest - Denise: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, there was someone from Glamour Magazine who wanted to do this article and I wrote to her and I said, "Da, da, da," and I told her about whatever my ideas for her article and then she's like that's great. I will be featuring you and then I was like, "Oh, I need to have a website."
Support - Nick: Yeah, you need a presence.
Guest - Denise: "What did I do?" Because I stepped in before I was completely ready. You know what I mean and that was like, I think that's key, right? Is taking that risk, go forward, and then having that accountability. I had to whip this up in a week because my name is going to be in Glamour. So, that was really a push. It's funny, it's interesting to relive that story.
Main - Dan: So, you're in New York City. You establish your business, and you've decided that Google+ with it's online route it's just a scattershot. You don't know if it's hitting the target at all. But you got to do something, right? Or else business doesn't succeed if people don't pull out their ... vote with their wallet, pull out their credit card. So, you say, all right I'm getting this awesome publication. It's not going anywhere. What of you do next? First of all how do you decide or even think about what you should do next and then what do you deicide on and how does that work?
Guest - Denise: I have to say for everybody who is in business, especially if you're trying to do it on your own, and I didn't want to get a partner. I had an advisor who was a friend and he's like don't get a partner unless you need one. I think a partner would be a similar sort of accountability model but paying for someone to essentially be my boss was key for me. So, having that person, because remember guys I was a dancer and I was naturally producing, creating, generating income on my own, I was a business owner in this creative way, because a dancer essentially is that. You are-
Main - Dan: Sure, you got to be artistic.
Guest - Denise: Well, you have to be artistic but you also have to sell your stuff to people who don't think its worth anything. So, your job is like you're a sales person your entire life because it's not an easy sell. The arts are not an easy sell. Right, when you have to get people to come to your events and what not. But I didn't have any official business. I didn't know I needed to build an LLC. I didn't know about any legal ... there are all these elements to starting a business that you need help with. And so, I relied on one, a business coach and I was also very resourceful with the people I knew in my life and I asked for help. So, I had a client who was a huge lawyer in the City. He's a huge lawyer in the City and I was like, "Hey, do you mind talking to me about this? What do I need to do?" And he helped me out. It was awesome. He was like, "Go do this."
Main - Dan: That's networking.
Support - Nick: Yeah, I was going to say another big advantage of putting yourself in New York City and that hub is the network you created over these years so the time you were ready to pull the trigger on something you had all the help you could ask for.
Guest - Denise: Oh, yeah. Yeah and the expertise, the quality of expertise here is ridiculous. Absolutely being resourceful. I bartered. I did this with no money. I did not take out a loan. I did not ask for funding. I felt safest doing it ... I think being an artist you learn to live on nothing and so, you're like, no, you're resourceful.
Support - Nick: Sure.
Guest - Denise: I can build a website. I'm can wear all of the hats too which ends up becoming a problem down the road because initially it's like, yeah, I can build ... I basically built up my website, you know with the help of a designer friend. I could whatever. You guys get it. But I was very resourceful and I went forward and like you said, I love that. Like the scattershot. I just like threw things on the wall to see what would stick and over time, you know it's a hard way to do it. It's exhausting, really. Then you learn. You're like, yep. That's not working. I will not be on Twitter. Because I don't think ever again. That doesn't work.
Support - Nick: Well, we've been using this term ... well, we actually brought in ... I wouldn't say a business coach but we brought in a marketing director to help us on the business side because we were really good at developing the product, talking to the customers, selling onboarding, but we didn't really create that online presence that we didn't have that marketing director because we were in something new, it being a software as a service. We look at some things and it's like, "Yeah, it would be great if we had another person around here to help us with that but like that's just not getting the RLY we want. We're just not going to put our energy there."
Main - Dan: I remember when we were getting started and I would tell friends and family about this idea and people would ask what I do and I'd explain and they go, "Oh, you should do this. You should integrate with Apple on how to take your resting heart rate and then recommend a class for you." And I'm like, "Yeah, that's fantastic. Do you want to drop a million and a half on a development team to get that to me in four months?" Like that's sounds ... yeah why don't I have a jet pack roller skates as well?" And people are like "Well, I'm just saying if you want to succeed." And it's like, "One, what do you know? Two, where's ... we got a three man team. There's no bandwidth for these things. It's we got to prior-" And then from bandwidth the next big word we like to use is prioritize. And I'm sure with yourself a one person bandwidth, you have to prioritize like crazy.
Support - Nick: Probably half, a third of your day.
Guest - Denise: Oh, yeah.
Main - Dan: It's great when it's all going on in your own head. You know that's an internal dialogue. The financial to the marketer to the CEO, that's all one person. Once you have to start communicating these things, oh man don't you wish you could just touch the side of your head and impart your thoughts on somebody else?
Guest - Denise: Oh, yeah. I want my whole team of elves. That would be amazing. But it's like, that's a dream, right? And it's interesting because I was so against paying for anything for the longest time, and then I had my child and she's two years old now, and once that happened, oh my god. Add a child to what you just said and-
Support - Nick: Nope.
Main - Dan: Nope.
Guest - Denise: ... I mean and literally try ... you said you spend your day prioritizing. You try to get something done and then just imagine there's an earthquake every five minutes. That's how your life is. And so, it's insane and then living in the City and just managing all this. I mean having a child is a full time job. So, I realized at that point I couldn't ... I had to invest. I had to invest in an assistant. And I up leveled my investment in my coach so I had more support. I did hire a marketing person for a while. Kind of minimally. And I will say you can be resourceful about that too. So, you talk about the bandwidth. So, it is about finding that balance of like okay, I'm willing to invest X amount of dollars per month for the next three months and let's see. Right?
Support - Nick: Yes. We've done that.
Guest - Denise: So, it's that checking in. That like testing and then in the beginning I wasn't really testing and I didn't have time lines. I was kind of like, "I'm all in." I was single. I was in New York. I was like, "This is fun. I'm an entrepreneur now. This is so much fun." You now like seriously? [crosstalk 00:12:44].
Support - Nick: This is a new chapter.
Guest - Denise: Yeah, exactly. It's like, "What else do I have to do?" So, I just totally put my whole life in it and then the burnout happened. Around year-
Support - Nick: I was waiting for that. I was like this woman sounds like a super hero. There's no way.
Guest - Denise: There is no way. That is true.
Support - Nick: It catches up with you. It really does.
Guest - Denise: It does catches up with you.
Support - Nick: I feel like I'm still tired from two years ago.
Guest - Denise: Yes. Absolutely. Yeah, no totally. It's very interesting and that continues to be the problem. Right? Is that work-life balance and what's interesting is like I'm a wellness professional and so I'm teaching people how to be well and yet it is the first thing that goes. Especially, again as a mother who just all I want to do is give to my daughter. That's all I want to do in my life.
Main - Dan: And we hear that so often with the wellness professionals. Your job is to take care of other people. Make sure they take care of themselves. Meanwhile, you're burning the candle at both ends while lighting a third trying to figure out how to get more light.
Guest - Denise: Yep. That's right. It's totally true. So, I definitely it's interesting I'm actually doing a Facebook challenge right now. The challenge is interesting because it's a core connect challenge. So, in the morning's I'm doing 30 minutes. We're doing movement, meditation, and mindset. So, what's fascinating is I have not been able to have a morning practice like I want to because of my child. I wake up and she's there and it's very hard to do that. And so my husband has taken her for these ... because I have to do ... I'm doing this live with an audience. So, it's very centering actually to be doing my own work and I feel like 2019 for me is about continuing to connect into what is my purpose and my goal in my body and myself. Then that informs my business. What can drive a successful business and it's not just a successful business, it's really a successful life because if you're making a million a year but you have no help, you have like all friends don't talk to you anymore because you've pushed them off to the side. Your husband or wife is going to divorce you. You guys are not there. But your husband or wife is going to divorce you-
Main - Dan: Amen.
Guest - Denise: ... because your cranky all the time and you're just a B-I-T-C-H, it is a work-life balance and I think that we talked about what I've found through this experience is really connecting in to my self and my core and what my life ... like what I my life to look like, not just my business. What do I want to like feel in my life? Am I feeling good all day? Am I relaxed? Can I breathe? You know?
Support - Nick: No, I totally understand when you have that constant shortness of breath. You're like I'm not happy right now, something is wrong.
Guest - Denise: Oh, that's funny. And you guys sound younger than me. I know you're younger than me. And the thing is that it keeps compounding on itself.
Support - Nick: Of course, yeah.
Guest - Denise: It keeps getting ... it's more and more and more and then your parents are getting older and then, you know it's like, life is a lot and so to keep connecting back to who you are and what you want and then defining it out there. But I will say a lot of that takes trial and error, right?
Support - Nick: Sure.
Guest - Denise: And it takes a lot of bumping into the walls and getting bruised because you're not using the most efficient method for your business.
Support - Nick: Yeah, yeah.
Guest - Denise: But you have to figure it out and you guys what year are you in your business?
Support - Nick: We are in about year three, I want to say? Yeah, this September will be year four. And we've also taken several iterations on our software, so we understand that. We started off with a team of one when I started it. And it was an app that would help people find a fitness partner. Then we got our team up to three and we were a software for campus recreation til we found they were really hard to work with. Now, we're up to about a team six and we are serving the studio fitness community. So, even though were in about year three, we're also on idea three. So, we're only about eight months into this last iteration which we believe we've done enough homework, we've had enough experiences, this is going to be it. But like you said, the energy just gets compounded because now it's just like there's the same song and dance in a slightly different chapter. You just got to figure out what's going to work for you.
Support - Nick: One of the things I thought was interesting that you talked about was how that big press didn't yield any big results. I know you mentioned it on the podcast. You said you got that big press opportunity, you had to go back and build the website. But what you told us in our pre-conversation was that you didn't get the results you wanted.
Guest - Denise: Yes.
Support - Nick: And we faced a similar thing in campus rec where we ... they have these big conferences every year, multiple times a year, we told our investors this is where we needed to be. We got to those events and just nothing. We were better off cold calling and cold emailing than we were going to these conferences.
Guest - Denise: Yep.
Main - Dan: Oh, yeah.
Support - Nick: I could definitely resonate with you that it's very industry specific. My dad's an engineer. He goes to conferences all the time. They make big deals at those conferences. You read about it all the time. Is it just me, am I doing something wrong?
Guest - Denise: Right.
Support - Nick: But then you just really find out that conferences are really an industry specific thing whether people are going there for business or they're going there to party. And if they're going there to party you might as well just spend as little money as possible and just go make friends compared to renting out a huge exhibit space, you know, pulling out all the bells and whistles to get there. We brought four people to a conference. We didn't need four people. We needed four people when we went out for social events but not for the actual booth.
Guest - Denise: Yeah.
Main - Dan: When Nick said, "We're on month eight of this third iteration," it popped my eyes open because ... well, of course I know that in a sense it's like we've been working for three years. What do you mean we're on month eight? And it's almost like hold up. Take a step back. Yeah, we're on month eight of what we're doing right now. So, when we're like why isn't it picking up? Why aren't we millionaires? Why isn't Nike asking to buy my company for whatever reason? It's like, "Dude, you haven't been doing this for a year yet. You're going to have to work longer than that to get some traction." It takes some people that long to get in shape. How long you think it's going to take to build a business?
Guest - Denise: Oh, yeah. No, I love that. I think what's interesting, Nick about what you said about cold calling so, that was a revelation I had in my business. I spent so much time doing these things that like marketing people would say to do or whoever.
Support - Nick: Yeah. Yeah. Like what's textbook.
Guest - Denise: Yeah, textbook. Like do this, get on Facebook, do Facebook ads, get press. Again, the press I got wasn't obviously just that one article. There were a ton of big magazines that covered me and it didn't do anything. Then the Facebook following, the Instagram, all of this, and I-
Main - Dan: And the Google+ following.
Guest - Denise: The Google+ ... And I had this revelation that all of that time that I'm spending on that kind of figuring out or staring at my computer, trying to compose the perfect marketing email, and just rehashing things like what should I say? I could literally spend that time calling people, talking to them, inviting them-
Support - Nick: With no script, just having a conversation.
Guest - Denise: Exactly. Having a conversation, inviting them into the studio to see my work, and that's what I've moved into, and then the clients are coming in. It's funny because that's the scariest thing to do, to be honest. It's scary to call people. Nobody actually wants you calling them by the phone.
Main - Dan: No they don't. No they do not.
Guest - Denise: So, even it's not a call like ... take it like a personal email. Not like a group email.
Main - Dan: That's what we moved too, yeah.
Guest - Denise: A personal email. Like, "Hey, I'd love to chat with you about what you're doing with your wellness routine or what you're doing with your platform that you're one right now?" You know, it's the personal ... and by the way having been in that ... so just to like kind of fast forward to here it was year five or six of my business online, I had that revelation that I actually wanted to be more in-person because I was noticing that, and I think I said this to Dan, that I hadn't even given out a physical business card in three years because I wasn't even meeting with people. Everything was digital, digital, digital. And I went to this group event with a friend and it was like, "Oh, my god. I'm in a room with other women. This is amazing." I wanted to get back to real personal connection. I think we're really in need of that with everything digital. Right?
Support - Nick: Yes.
Guest - Denise: I think that that's the way to go. Also, I'll just add in terms in of that press the big, casting the big net isn't necessarily the best. I do have a good friend, Amanda [Bruin 00:21:41], who is also a DIY press person. She does press coaching. But her thing is yeah, it's about creating ... getting into the more intimate communities so that your press is more in like a Facebook group that has-
Main - Dan: The right people.
Guest - Denise: The right people. Exactly.
Main - Dan: Well, we say it all the time. If you have a million followers versus a thousand followers and let's just say you both get a hundred likes on the same picture, it's like you know what I mean? That person with the million followers it doesn't matter if you can't monetize it.
Guest - Denise: Exactly.
Main - Dan: And speaking of going niche, just to go back to, because I already talked about it with our three iterations, I think about it all the time. Like niche, niche, niche, you just got to narrow down and speak to the right person not cast a big net. Our first product we were a fitness app. Then the next product we were a campus rec, or we were a business and analytics app, and now we're a studio management software. It just like keeps going. A studio management software, a studio fitness owners. It's like just keep getting more and more niche. You talk to the right person, things start to actually happen.
Guest - Denise: Yeah. Exactly.
Main - Dan: Because no one knows if it's for them if you cast it too big wide.
Guest - Denise: Right. Right. Right. Today I wonder how many new businesses have launched? Do you know what I'm saying?
Main - Dan: Oh my goodness, yeah.
Guest - Denise: Everybody and their mother and brother and sister are launching their own business. That's just what people do right now, right? So, it's completely overwhelming. And to be honest I'm like, I don't want another app.
Main - Dan: Yep.
Guest - Denise: I don't want to know about a new thing. I'm so tired and overwhelmed of the new. I want to go to the diner that's on my street that's been there for 80 years. That's what I want to do. You know what I'm saying?
Support - Nick: Yeah, absolutely.
Guest - Denise: I want to talk to the owner who has been doing this same exact job for 50 years. It's like we need that grounding and so to your point like getting niche and then talking with people and really making real connections. That's the way to get through the noise especially in the service and wellness profession. Yeah.
Support - Nick: I think it's all going to revert back because we take as we start to think about scaling we also think, "Okay, how do we also not automate everything so that we're just like our competitors?" We might slow down in sales but we have to be more personal. For the yoga studios, yeah we can serve people in California but we can also drive down the street and find a studio, a hundred within ten miles of us. So, we have to go to those people and it's like I can an onboarding session through a Google Hangout or we can go to that studio and make that person feel special. I definitely think you're going to see that more and more, especially in our space with the software as a service, you're going to have to find ways to make it more personal.
Guest - Denise: Yep.
Main - Dan: Now there are some ways, I know it's not the direction we've been going, but I'm actually going to disagree with both of you a little bit.
Support - Nick: Uh-oh.
Main - Dan: And I'm going to use this podcast we are on right now as that direct example. So, I spent I want to say around, what was it Nick, two months sending those couple thousand emails to our list of people.
Support - Nick: Right.
Main - Dan: Spent around two months sending personal, one by one, emails and Denise you were actually on that list, whether or not you remember. And those were sales emails. Virtually nothing came back from those. Then we got this cute idea for a podcast and one day we said, "Let's just send them all as a mass email." So, I took two months of my work getting almost no responses and then I took 20 minutes sending a mass email and we got what, 30 responses of people saying, "Yeah, I'll be on the podcast." So, while personal works, I think incentive works just as well.
Guest - Denise: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Support - Nick: I can agree with that.
Main - Dan: Now the difficult part there is how do we incentivize people to answer the other emails, as well as these ones? But I still think there's in this digital age we got to utilize the technology that's ahead of us. Now do I think our customer service we need to slow down things to keep that more personal? Absolutely. I have a customer texting me right now while we're doing this podcast asking me a question about our software. But I wouldn't be so quick to push off to the side what technology and streamlining allows to accomplish. And to wrap that point up certainly you wouldn't have been able to do your online business without these technological advances in the first place.
Guest - Denise: So, yeah. I think it's a balance, right? I love that ... and we want it to be that way. You want to be able to send out a mass email. So, that's an interesting point too because is it the approach to get the person coming in or is it the offer? And so your offer to us to be on a podcast with this mass email was much more of a-
Main - Dan: Appealing.
Guest - Denise: Appealing. So, if the offer-
Main - Dan: Then being sold to.
Guest - Denise: That's the thing, right? Is like figuring out that offer, right?
Main - Dan: Sure.
Guest - Denise: And again you're testing. But it's interesting and I think it's funny that you say that because actually my 2019 goal in addition to finding core connection to myself is visibility. I want to get back out there and be on the summits and have the mass email and I do. And that is the way to do it. I mean it's a contradiction. It's life, right?
Main - Dan: Sure.
Guest - Denise: It's all things, right? And it's testing.
Main - Dan: So, tell me what are you doing right now to grow your business because I know we talked on the phone and you said, "New York City is massive. And there's tons of Pilates studios and this and that." But you said, "If I could cover five square blocks in every direction around where I live and capitalize those I make plenty of money. I do well. I am happy."
Guest - Denise: Right. Right. Right.
Main - Dan: What are you doing to have your boots on the ground and capitalize on those while keeping that in-person but how are you also leveraging technology? How are you finding that balance to reach, Denise, your goal?
Guest - Denise: Yeah, exactly. And so this comes back to that balance and the needs at the moment. One of my projects right now is networking connecting with local wellness professionals. So, to your point anyone who is between 60th Street and 110th Street, I'm on 96th, so that's like a pretty ... it's not five blocks, it's a little bit bigger. New Yorkers are very much about convenience so if they have to take 10 minutes to get somewhere they might not do it. But yeah, so it's focusing on connecting with wellness professionals who are people and having those conversations. That's part one. Then I am doing that Yin Yang balance so, the other thing I'm doing right now is doing a bigger launch because I do have my list is all over the country, to be honest. Because I've lived in a million places right? So, I do have a lot of people who can't work with me in the City. So, I'm launching my first 30 day online course. You will be working directly with me but it's a 30 day program.
Main - Dan: Awesome.
Guest - Denise: I have a 30 day private program that I've worked with with my clients here in the City and I'm also offering in a group and an online program. So, that's launching January 20th.
Main - Dan: So, what's that called if anyone wants to look you up and get involved?
Guest - Denise: So, my website is mybod, M-Y-B-O-D, wellness, not mybody, but mybodwellness.com and then the program's called Core Elevate. Oh, my god, I don't even know because I just created the landing page and I put it out in my emails. Anyone could email me about it. Yeah, so it's the Core Elevate Group Online Program and you can see the private, I think the private one is visible, but it doesn't matter. You can reach out to me. You can go to my site. But it launches January 20th and it will be 30 days of both physical and that mental-spiritual core connection to make decisions a little bit more holistically.
Main - Dan: Fantastic.
Guest - Denise: Yeah. So, that's what's in the pipeline for me.
Main - Dan: Cool.
Support - Nick: Cool. Denise has a great website. Like she just said, mybodwellness.com. We'll put that in the podcast information on our site. So, on that note are there any closing words you want to tell the listeners?
Guest - Denise: I think just keep going. Keep going. Keep trying and take care of yourself because it's that balance of taking the risks and then coming back and supporting yourself. Taking a risk. Coming back and supporting yourself. And so, taking care of yourself but then jumping and trying as you guys are on your third iteration of your business. I love it. That's the way it works. Accepting that and moving forward and having fun.
Support - Nick: Yeah, that's an important one.
Guest - Denise: Yeah.
Support - Nick: If you're not having fun you're going to get burnt out a lot faster.
Main - Dan: Oh, yes.
Guest - Denise: Yep. Yep, yep, yep.
Support - Nick: All right. Well thank you so much for being on this show today.
Main - Dan: Yeah, it was great.
Support - Nick: And we hope you'll have another one.
Guest - Denise: Thank you guys. This is awesome.